Quotes from Evangelical Lutheran Synod President
In a recent article in the New Hampton Tribune, Evangelical Lutheran Synod President, Rev. John A. Molstad says:
“We teach on the basis of Holy Scripture that marriage is the only proper context for the expression of sexual intimacy and for the purpose of procreation of children. See Rom. 1:26-27, 1 Cor. 6:9, 18 and 7:2-9, John 4:17-18, 1 John 1:9, Gen. 1:27-28 and 2:18-24, Matt. 19:4-6” when discussing the ELCA's (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) decision to ordain openly gay men and women.
Romans 1:26-27 – Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.
The pastor conveniently forgets the first part of this section of Romans in which god is railing against human for not worshiping him properly. Read the whole passage and you can see these verses are not against being gay but god turns people gay because they do not worship god properly.
Romans 1:21 – 28 – (21) They know god, but they do not give him the honor that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds filled with darkness. (22) They say they are wise, but they are fools; (23) instead of worshiping the immortal god, they worship images made to look like mortal man or birds or reptiles. (24)And so god has given those people over to do the filthy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other. (25) They exchange the truth about god for a lie and serve what god has created instead of the creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen. (26) Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. (27)In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing. (28) Because these people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about god, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do.
As can be clearly seen in these verses, Paul was not against homosexuality, he was claiming a person is made gay by god as punishment for not worshiping god properly. Verses taken out of context can have terrible consequences.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – (9) Surely you know the wicked will not possess god’s kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts (10) or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves – none of these will possess god’s kingdom.
1 Corinthians 6:18 – (18) Avoid immorality. Any other sin a man commits does not affect his body; but the man who is guilty of sexual immorality sins against his own body.
The good pastor buys into one of the great continuing fallacies of the ages. The fallacy that homosexuality is somehow immoral. People who are gay have no more control over being gay than I have over being tall, or my brown hair, or being skinny, or green eyes. The pastor fails to understand that homosexuality is a normal human trait. Calling homosexuality immoral makes as much sense as saying green eyes are immoral. A gay person cannot help being gay. Calling homosexuality immoral just perpetuates a stereotype, namely that homosexuals are homosexuals because they choose to be. Why in the world would someone choose to be gay knowing full well the discrimination they will face? Homosexuality is a human trait. Calling it immoral because of 2000 year old piece of fiction is wrong.
1 Corinthians 7:2-9 – (2) But because there is so much immorality, every man should have his own wife, and every woman should have her own husband. (3) A man should fulfill his duty as a husband and a woman should fulfill her duty as a wife, and each should satisfy the others' needs. (4) A wife is not the master of her own body, but her husband is; in the same way a husband is not the master of his own body, but his wife is. (5) Do not deny yourselves to each other, unless you first agree to do so for a while in order to spend your time in prayer; but then resume normal marital relations. In this way you will be kept from giving in to satan’s temptation because of your lack of control. (6) I tell you this not as an order but simply as permission. (7) Actually I would prefer that all of you were as I am; but each one has a special gift from god, one person this gift, one person that gift. (8) Now, to the unmarried and to the widows I say that it would be better for you to continue to live alone as I do. (9) But if you cannot restrain your desires, go ahead and marry – it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
So, instead of living and being who you are, a homosexual should get married to someone of the opposite sex and live a lie. I wonder how many gays this has happened to and they end up in a loveless marriage of lies, guilt, and shame.
John 4:17-18 – (17) “I don’t have a husband,” she answered. Jesus replied, “You are right when you say you don’t have a husband. (18) You have been married to five men, and the man you live with now is not really your husband. You have told me the truth.”
Not sure how this fits with gays being unfit or prevented from being ordained or having equal rights. I need more clarification on this. It has nothing to do with being gay. In fact the verse appears to convey the writer’s displeasure with a promiscuous woman.
1 John 1:9 – (9) But if we confess our sins to god, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.
Once again, the pastor and the writer of this verse are assuming that homosexuality is immoral and shameful. There is an abundance of medical and scientific knowledge to show that people who are gay, are gay, not because they choose to be gay, but because they were born gay. The pastor needs to become more informed of recent medical advancements and scientific studies on the topic. Homosexuality is a human trait and nothing is going to change that fact. No amount of confession or sin will change that fact.
Genesis 1:27-28 – (27) So god created human beings, making them like himself. He created them male and female, (28) blessed them, and said, “Have many children, so that your descendants will live all over the earth and bring it under your control. I am putting you in charge of the fish, the birds, and all the wild animals.
I guess the good pastor fails to realize that people who are gay can have children. It is widely accepted that gays can adopt children and that gay women can have children through in-vitro fertilization. People can procreate even if they are gay.
Genesis 2:18-24 – (18) Then the lord god said, “It is not good for a man to live alone. I will make a suitable companion for him,” (19) So he took some soil from the ground and formed all animals and birds. Then he brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and that is how they all got their names. (20) So the man named all the birds and animals; but not one of them was a suitable companion to help him. (21) Then the lord god made the man fall into a deep sleep, and while he was sleeping, he took out one of the man’s ribs and closed up the flesh. (22) He formed a woman out of the rib and brought her to him. (23) Then the man said, “At last, here is one of my own kind – bone taken from my bone, and flesh from my flesh. ‘Woman’ is her name because she was taken out of man.” (24) That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united with his wife, and they become one.
What cute and quaint little story. A nice fairy tale. From an evolutionary stand point this story is meaningless. It does nothing to expand human knowledge. It does nothing to help people to understand why an openly gay man or woman should not be ordained.
Matthew 19:4-6 – (4) Jesus answered, “Haven’t you read the scripture that says that in the beginning the creator made people male and female? (5) And god said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his mother and father and unite with his wife, and the two will become one.’ (6) So they are no longer two, but one. Man must not separate, then, what god has joined together.”
These verses do nothing to clarify why gays cannot be ordained.
“We teach on the basis of Holy Scripture that marriage is the only proper context for the expression of sexual intimacy and for the purpose of procreation of children. See Rom. 1:26-27, 1 Cor. 6:9, 18 and 7:2-9, John 4:17-18, 1 John 1:9, Gen. 1:27-28 and 2:18-24, Matt. 19:4-6” when discussing the ELCA's (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) decision to ordain openly gay men and women.
Romans 1:26-27 – Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.
The pastor conveniently forgets the first part of this section of Romans in which god is railing against human for not worshiping him properly. Read the whole passage and you can see these verses are not against being gay but god turns people gay because they do not worship god properly.
Romans 1:21 – 28 – (21) They know god, but they do not give him the honor that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds filled with darkness. (22) They say they are wise, but they are fools; (23) instead of worshiping the immortal god, they worship images made to look like mortal man or birds or reptiles. (24)And so god has given those people over to do the filthy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other. (25) They exchange the truth about god for a lie and serve what god has created instead of the creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen. (26) Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. (27)In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing. (28) Because these people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about god, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do.
As can be clearly seen in these verses, Paul was not against homosexuality, he was claiming a person is made gay by god as punishment for not worshiping god properly. Verses taken out of context can have terrible consequences.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – (9) Surely you know the wicked will not possess god’s kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts (10) or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves – none of these will possess god’s kingdom.
1 Corinthians 6:18 – (18) Avoid immorality. Any other sin a man commits does not affect his body; but the man who is guilty of sexual immorality sins against his own body.
The good pastor buys into one of the great continuing fallacies of the ages. The fallacy that homosexuality is somehow immoral. People who are gay have no more control over being gay than I have over being tall, or my brown hair, or being skinny, or green eyes. The pastor fails to understand that homosexuality is a normal human trait. Calling homosexuality immoral makes as much sense as saying green eyes are immoral. A gay person cannot help being gay. Calling homosexuality immoral just perpetuates a stereotype, namely that homosexuals are homosexuals because they choose to be. Why in the world would someone choose to be gay knowing full well the discrimination they will face? Homosexuality is a human trait. Calling it immoral because of 2000 year old piece of fiction is wrong.
1 Corinthians 7:2-9 – (2) But because there is so much immorality, every man should have his own wife, and every woman should have her own husband. (3) A man should fulfill his duty as a husband and a woman should fulfill her duty as a wife, and each should satisfy the others' needs. (4) A wife is not the master of her own body, but her husband is; in the same way a husband is not the master of his own body, but his wife is. (5) Do not deny yourselves to each other, unless you first agree to do so for a while in order to spend your time in prayer; but then resume normal marital relations. In this way you will be kept from giving in to satan’s temptation because of your lack of control. (6) I tell you this not as an order but simply as permission. (7) Actually I would prefer that all of you were as I am; but each one has a special gift from god, one person this gift, one person that gift. (8) Now, to the unmarried and to the widows I say that it would be better for you to continue to live alone as I do. (9) But if you cannot restrain your desires, go ahead and marry – it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
So, instead of living and being who you are, a homosexual should get married to someone of the opposite sex and live a lie. I wonder how many gays this has happened to and they end up in a loveless marriage of lies, guilt, and shame.
John 4:17-18 – (17) “I don’t have a husband,” she answered. Jesus replied, “You are right when you say you don’t have a husband. (18) You have been married to five men, and the man you live with now is not really your husband. You have told me the truth.”
Not sure how this fits with gays being unfit or prevented from being ordained or having equal rights. I need more clarification on this. It has nothing to do with being gay. In fact the verse appears to convey the writer’s displeasure with a promiscuous woman.
1 John 1:9 – (9) But if we confess our sins to god, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.
Once again, the pastor and the writer of this verse are assuming that homosexuality is immoral and shameful. There is an abundance of medical and scientific knowledge to show that people who are gay, are gay, not because they choose to be gay, but because they were born gay. The pastor needs to become more informed of recent medical advancements and scientific studies on the topic. Homosexuality is a human trait and nothing is going to change that fact. No amount of confession or sin will change that fact.
Genesis 1:27-28 – (27) So god created human beings, making them like himself. He created them male and female, (28) blessed them, and said, “Have many children, so that your descendants will live all over the earth and bring it under your control. I am putting you in charge of the fish, the birds, and all the wild animals.
I guess the good pastor fails to realize that people who are gay can have children. It is widely accepted that gays can adopt children and that gay women can have children through in-vitro fertilization. People can procreate even if they are gay.
Genesis 2:18-24 – (18) Then the lord god said, “It is not good for a man to live alone. I will make a suitable companion for him,” (19) So he took some soil from the ground and formed all animals and birds. Then he brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and that is how they all got their names. (20) So the man named all the birds and animals; but not one of them was a suitable companion to help him. (21) Then the lord god made the man fall into a deep sleep, and while he was sleeping, he took out one of the man’s ribs and closed up the flesh. (22) He formed a woman out of the rib and brought her to him. (23) Then the man said, “At last, here is one of my own kind – bone taken from my bone, and flesh from my flesh. ‘Woman’ is her name because she was taken out of man.” (24) That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united with his wife, and they become one.
What cute and quaint little story. A nice fairy tale. From an evolutionary stand point this story is meaningless. It does nothing to expand human knowledge. It does nothing to help people to understand why an openly gay man or woman should not be ordained.
Matthew 19:4-6 – (4) Jesus answered, “Haven’t you read the scripture that says that in the beginning the creator made people male and female? (5) And god said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his mother and father and unite with his wife, and the two will become one.’ (6) So they are no longer two, but one. Man must not separate, then, what god has joined together.”
These verses do nothing to clarify why gays cannot be ordained.
posted by Proud American Liberal at 8:15 AM
2 Comments:
My blog, Spirit of a Liberal (www.theliberalspirit.com), has posted on all things ELCA for over a year. As an LGBT advocate at the 2009 Church wide assembly, I watched with great joy as the voting members from around the entire country passed resolutions encouraging congregations to recognize and support committed gay relationships and to allow such partnered gays to serve openly as clergy. I don't know the bishop you quote or his views, but I can say that the majority of ELCA clergy and laity have formally spoken in favor of LGBT equality which is now official ELCA policy--notwithstanding a conservative backlash. Suffice it to say, this majority questions the authority of Paul's supposed gay bashing quotes.
Secondly, I offer my recent novel entitled "A Wretched Man, a novel of Paul the apostle" as an alternative view of the motivations behind the writings of Paul, suggesting (as have others) that he was a self-loathing gay man, and sexual angst is manifest in his writings. Sorry for the blatant self-promotion, but the novel, which has received critical acclaim for historical accuracy, speaks to the issue raised in your blogpost. www.awretchedman.com.
Thank you Obie. I will check out your blog and the book. Sounds interesting. I didn't know/think Paul was an anguished gay man until I read several of John Shelby Spong's books.
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